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hagbardxxiii

Archergeddon

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This is why people are moving resource buildings 1 square away from the outer wall !  But then you can obviously not protect as many buildings

 

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Wow, just had my first taste of the pointy death that is Archergeddon & it SUCKED, 73% not a single wall breached... Again, wow!

Yup, your layout is pretty much the perfect target for Archergeddon.... at least it was only 1 star!!

This is why people are moving resource buildings 1 square away from the outer wall !  But then you can obviously not protect as many buildings

JbTdlZr.gif

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Wow, just had my first taste of the pointy death that is Archergeddon & it SUCKED, 73% not a single wall breached... Again, wow!

I checked your account but can't see it. Is this your 2nd account I went to? I typed in your forum name...

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ConRamCherGeddon...let's see if this becomes a new word...

Definition: Using Conrad plus multiple rams (usually over 5) to get easy One Star on any Keep. The 2nd star is earned through use of Archers destroying buildings (can be 20+ Archers).

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I'm definitely a fan of Archergeddon. Its the only attack I use that consistently works. With Ram rush it always goes wrong for me- even with 26 rams. Using Edward & Beli to clear a path and take down the keep is a gamble wether they'll live long enough to do it. Trebs and meatshield requires too much coordination and skill for me on a phone.

You've just gotta pick the target carefully.

1 thing I've been trying for 2* Archergeddon is Martel & Nevsky clearing a path to keep, sending in 15 archers to help take keep down before Martel kicks bucket then using the 35 other archers for the >50%

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I checked your account but can't see it. Is this your 2nd account I went to? I typed in your forum name...

no due to a glitch I lost my first castle, under this name, my gamer tag now is HilariousUser89 (not my choice, I far prefer Hagbardxxiii as a moniker)

 

 

 

I'm definitely a fan of Archergeddon. Its the only attack I use that consistently works. With Ram rush it always goes wrong for me- even with 26 rams. Using Edward & Beli to clear a path and take down the keep is a gamble wether they'll live long enough to do it. Trebs and meatshield requires too much coordination and skill for me on a phone.

You've just gotta pick the target carefully.

1 thing I've been trying for 2* Archergeddon is Martel & Nevsky clearing a path to keep, sending in 15 archers to help take keep down before Martel kicks bucket then using the 35 other archers for the >50%

HOW MANY RAMS??????[scared]

It's actually a great strategy, especially against my layout as my buddy skh stated & especially for sniping. It was interesting that having read about it forever here to finally, literally, feel the pointy end of the stick!

Would it work with Longbows or do you actually need 64 archer units just to keep everyone busy?

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no due to a glitch I lost my first castle, under this name, my gamer tag now is HilariousUser89 (not my choice, I far prefer Hagbardxxiii as a moniker)

 

 

 

HOW MANY RAMS??????[scared]

It's actually a great strategy, especially against my layout as my buddy skh stated & especially for sniping. It was interesting that having read about it forever here to finally, literally, feel the pointy end of the stick!

Would it work with Longbows or do you actually need 64 archer units just to keep everyone busy?

You need to use Archers as they are tougher then the English counterpart and the reason it works is because usually you can have 2 archers per building which takes them out faster then a longbowmen ever could hope for ... If you are trying to learn how @Lord HardDriven has a forum post on how to do it most effectively and he is a top 200 player just doing archergeddon without ramrash involved ;)

I've seen a lot of people complaining about the match ups they are getting after the latest patch geared towards fixing the battle Match Making. They see a more advanced player and assume they cant's win so they end up hitting next many times looking for a match they can win. Now this seems to mainly be coming from lower and mid aged players who are trying to destroy keeps and win stars and crowns. Doing this below age eight is really not the way to go in my opinion. What these players should be doing is going more after resources and if in that process they see a way to destroy the keep as well then that's icing on the cake.

I have a tactic I use that is unconventional to someone going after crowns and stars. I call it Pillage and Plunder. In Medieval times not all battles between Kingdoms were for honor and glory. Often it was also about gaining resources that are hard for the attacking Kingdom to get on it's own. They would breech the castle walls and get as many valuables as they could find and take them back home rather then utterly defeating the Castle and claiming the Kingdom for it's own. They called this Pillage and Plunder. Now before I begin I feel it necessary to make a few disclaimers. Most importantly this is not a fool proof plan, winning the battle and getting at least one star and some crowns is possible but you will lose some battles too. On the upside though if you copy this style even a loss can be a win because of the amount of resources you can rake in. One nice thing about more advanced castles is they often have much more loot available then a more evenly matched castle. Another disclaimer is that since this method is being offered for new and experienced players alike some of what I'll be explaining is common knowledge for experienced players. So if you find some of this as old news remember that a new player might not know these things.

Now before I get started on the specifics let me show you some of what is possible.

25tuwq1.jpg

I've blacked out the names including my own since I'm under the impression that show player names is frowned upon. Now besides the large amount of resources gathered you can see that stars and crowns are still possible to gain. I will add though that with this style 71% wins are rare usually it's more around 50-60%.

f357jl.jpg

When I get high percentage wins like these it's usually because I managed 50% in less then two minutes and I still have 3 plus minutes to go after as much as possible.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that you shouldn't focus on just the economic buildings (Farms, Wood mills, quarries and their respective storage buildings) every building adds towards the % of the win and most will give you some small percentage of the various resources, except towers, they don't seem to give any resources and in this Pillage and Plunder style trying to take out towers is going to use up a big chunk of your forces with little to show for it.

21oroch.jpg

Now this is a more typical win in this style and often you end up hitting 50% and one star just before the battle ticks down to the final few seconds. While these wins seem less impressive I myself find them very satisfying as I am winning against a tougher opponent just using lowly foot soldiers and no siege weapons or heroes.

20pikx.jpg

Now like I said you won't always win, This picture shows what typical losses look like. The most frustrating at least for me are the 49% losses. Usually when the 49% loss happens if I had just a few more seconds it would have been a 50% win. Even though these are losses the important thing is I still bagged fairly nice amounts of resources and in this mode that's all that really matters. You'll have time enough for crowns, stars and glory down the road after you maxed out upgrades for not too much gold spent or even no gold spent if you opt for waiting for your army to train rather then paying for them to train instantly. I have a 68 spot sized camp and to train the configuration I use costs 45 gold coins and that's only if I used up every single unit of my army in the previous battle. Often times I don't and in those cases the cost to fully man my Pillage and Plunder army ends up being in the mid 30 gold coin range.

Okay let's talk now about the make up of your army the thing you want the most is ranged attackers I like regular archers the most as they only take up one slot each, they cost less food to train and of the foot soldiers that are possible to use they seem to have the best bang for your buck... er I mean gold :) Now the make up of the army I use is this: 5 x Champions, 8 x Raiders, 44 x Great Bowmen, 5 x Ladder Invader, 1 x Siege Ram and 2 x Raiders of Muscovy. You don't have to copy this exactly but the greatest amount of your army should be whatever range unit you use. n my opinion the Great Bowman are the best because they only take up on spot each and cost less food to train but otherwise can take and deliver fairly high amounts of damage. Some might be tempted to use the cultural unit Longbowman because they can shoot farther but they take up 2 spaces of your camp for each unit and the damage they can take aren't quite as good as archers because they are harder to upgrade and tend to lag behind Great Bowmen on the amount of damage they can take and give. Also they are agonizingly slow. The other ranged troop is the Mamluks, they can take and give more damage but again take up two camp spaces they are also faster moving then Great Bowman but in my strategy I'm outlining here you shouldn't need too much speed because you place the units fairly close to their intended target and you don't count on them to deal with more then that target. Although sometimes they can do more and when they do that's a bonus. Now let me cover the reasoning on my troop choices.

Champions I use mainly to kite the enemy away so I can have time to do my work with the Great Bowmen. For those that don't know is kiting is when you send a troop away from the castle to get the defenders chasing after them leaving the castle only defended by it's towers and emplacements. The one thing about kiting though is you can't have any other units actively attacking when you do it otherwise the defenders will go after the actively attacking first and then chase down the troop used to kite. You also don't want to start the kiting champion troop too close to the defenders. Champions are moderately fast but the majority of defenders tend to be faster mounted troops. So you want to start them a good bit away from the defenders and send them running away from the castle to the extreme edges of the kingdom. Another thing to be mindful off is you don't want to go to work with the Great Bowmen until the defenders have moved a good bit away from where you are going to start, otherwise if they are too close the defenders will just turn around right away and come after you. You'll have to figure out how long to wait thru trial and error because it'll be different for each layout and there are too many variables to try to explain what works best. Be mindful of your time left too because if you do it too late the battle will time out before it does you any good and you'll have wasted a troop unit for nothing. Another thing I sometimes use champions for is to distract defenders about to hit some of your Great Bowmen. If you place a Champion unit right in front of the defenders they'll usually go for it first buying your great Bowmen a little more time to finish off the building you set them to attack. I'll also use them to attack things some times if I have any left and have run out of Great Bowmen. Some castle layouts have buildings at the extreme corners of the kingdom in those cases I might opt to use a champion unit because they can usually finish off a building before the defenders can reach them.

Raiders I use when I've punched a hole in the wall and there are still resources to go after. They're fairly efficient and can take out economic targets pretty quickly especially if you send multiple units. You can pretty much point them in the right direction and just let them do what they do best. Two things to be careful of though is first to try to keep them from getting near a burning fire trap or a fire tower because they're goners if they come near those. Also Grenadiers can do a lot of damage to them and prevent them from getting to their targets. The second thing to be careful of is if there are any defenders nearby. Some times they'll turn and fight them even if there is a nearby resource for them to target. I don't know why they do this and have complained about it because it makes no sense for them to try to fight defenders because they will almost always lose as they are pretty weak in how much damage they can take. They're also not a good choice for attacking non economic targets as they're pretty slow at it compare to how fast they can take out economic targets. About the only time I'll send them after some other building is if I'm at 49% and I need any building to be destroyed to get 50% or above and there are no more Great Bowmen left. If you don't send them after a none economic target there default targeting will usually send them attack a wall or gate that has some economic building on the other side. They sense that building and try to take out whatever is blocking them but they have very little effect on walls and will usually be killed off by something before they break thru the only time they might succeed is if the wall is almost completely destroyed before they attack and anything can finish it off and bring the wall/gate down.

Ladder Invaders I use mainly for taking out emplacements or the Watch signal if they are out of my Great Bowmen's range. The only other thing I might use them or raiders for is to kite defenders if I have no Champions left to use. One nice thing about Ladder Invaders is I've never had them try to fight defenders. On the bad side they never seem to try to avoid fire towers which will take them out almost instantly and they'll run right thru a burning fire trap if you let them. I usually just send them after one emplacement or the one Watch signal and them let them do whatever they want afterwards, if they take anything else out that's a bonus if not it's no big deal to me. Like raiders on rare occasions if I just need on last building to come down to get over the 50% mark I'll send ladder raiders after some resource if any are left that my Great Bowmen failed to finish off. They're not very efficient on anything other then enplacements or the watch signal so I usually try to send them after a building that's just barely hanging on. You also want to avoid sending them any place where defenders can reach them because like raiders they can't take much damage.

Great Bowmen as I've already explained are the bulk of my army. They can shoot over walls, they pack a fair amount of damage per shot and they're moderately quick, If you choose to use them you'll want to put a propriety on upgrading them as fast as you can so they'll be the best they can be. Their biggest drawback is that they can only hit things immediately on the other side of the wall if the thing you want them to target is even just one square away from the wall then they'll be out of the Great Bowmen's range. The Cultural unit called Longbowman can shoot over walls too and hit targets that are one square away from a wall but as I already said they take up twice the space per unit and they are frustratingly slow. One other thing to watch out for Great Bowmen is there is a bug in the program that effects them. Most of the time you can just drop a Great Bowman unit in front of a target and they'll start shooting at it. If however the wall they are shooting over is right next to a gate they'll choose to shot at it and their impact on gates is pretty small. They can take out a gate fairly fast if you put like 4-6 or more units in front of a gate but then you'll probably use them up too quickly that way and miss out on a lot of targets you might have gotten if you didn't send them attacking a wall or gate. To avoid the gate glitch when you want a Great Bowman to target an item near a gate specifically target the building by dragging them to attack that building. 

Siege Rams I typically use towards the end of the battle when the Great Bowmen have taken out all the targets they can reach and/or have all been used up and I want to go after the last remaining targets with my raiders. They are very slow so try not to use them in situations where you can't set them right in front of the gate or wall you want them to break down. If you do like me and only use one try to make sure the breech they make gives your raiders or other troops the best targets to go after. You also need to be mindful of engineer traps. If you see engineer traps you need to get some other unit attacking the engineers before they can destroy your siege ram. Also you don't want your siege ram to have to take hits from any defensive tower or emplacement because it takes them a while to bring down anything above a level 7 wall and they'll probably get destroyed before they can succeed in that goal.

Raiders of Muscovy I can't really give a solid reason for using other then they typically have more ability to take and inflict damage although there are weaker defensive Halberdiers and units like Knights Templar that seem to have a defensive bonus against them. Raiders of Muscovy are really meant for resources and that's what they'll target first if you let them decide what to attack on their own if there are any resource targets near where you deploy them. I often don't use them unless there is nothing else left and I haven't hit 50% yet.

Okay let's take a look at an example of a good target to attack.

2whe2d3.jpg

What makes this a nice target is first there are a good number of targets to start off with that are totally unprotected. Second there are quite a few storage buildings for the resources within the Great Bowmen's range just on the inside of the outer wall. The storage buildings usually give up the greatest amount of resources and I think they represent a higher percentage of the kingdom then their resource producing counter parts. Had the Lumber yards been in the inner area where the defensive towers are and the wood mills in their place and the quarries in the outer ring and the stone store and the silos in the inner area as well I definitely would have gotten less resources and I might not have made the 50% because that inner area is pretty well protected. As you can see the storage areas were pretty full so I did really well with this one. In fact I think this was the one where I got 71% in the very first picture of what is possible with this style of attack. Another nice thing is that the defenders that are visible are all pretty slow and a good ways away from where I started. which was the first Silo on the left. Had the visible defenders been some form of mounted troop I probably would have started with the unprotected buildings on the left of the castle. That way the mounted troops would have been drawn over that way giving my great Bowmen more time to do their job before the mounted defenders went after them. As it turned out all the defensive troops even the ones in the guardhouses were the slowest moving foot soldiers so that made this target fairly easy and I didn't need to do any kiting. Once I noticed that it freed me up to turn my champions loose on the unprotected buildings on the left so the Great Bowman could be used better on the juicier targets.

sdmemx.jpg

Okay this picture shows how I deploy things when using this method I just plop one Great Bowmen unit in front of each of the easy targets starting from the left (Silo) all the way thru the last target on the right (Lumber Yard). As you can see by the time I finished that, the first few targets on the left were almost completely destroyed and the slow defenders were still a good ways away thus allowing the troops to move away from the defenders as they finish and help the next unit if they weren't finished with the building they were assigned. Since all that went so well it was about that point I turned the champions loose on the undefended  unprotected buildings. Another thing that is nice when you can plop a unit in front of it's target if if there are any troops manning the walls between the attacking unit and it's target the unit will pick off the troops on the walls first then go to work on the target there were three manned walls in front of the first two lumber yards and as you can see they weren't there any more by the time I did this screen capture. Now an important thing to note is that this is an age 9 keep with A musket tower and pretty well upgraded other towers. This is then just the sort of kingdom many seem to automatically next on if they are weaker and yet look how good I did using just foot soldiers and nothing else. Another point I can make with this image is this, see that outline around the castle 8 unprotected buildings. You can't deploy troops on the inside of that line, only on the outside it's no problem for the buildings furthest from the castle you can deploy Great Bowmen just outside that line in front of the buildings and they'll start shooting from there. Once those buildings are gone though they still have to be deployed on the outside and then walk in to the next nearest target, this is when the speed of a unit can matter. Had I used the cultural unit Longbowmen this could have been something to worry about. I also didn't try using the ram because of this. I just picked off what I could reach with all the unused Great Bowmen I had which was like 30 or so and then let it go at that since I had already gotten so much. Besides with all those defensive towers and emplacements to avoid even if I did make it possible for any of my other troops to get in there they probably wouldn't have done very well.

2wqxx7l.jpg

Now this castle while looking tempting with pretty loaded stores is one I would say is a bad choice for this style as there is too much out of the range of my Great Bowmen so I probably wouldn't have won against it although I probably would have gotten quite a bit of wood and food since there were two pretty full lumber yards I could have reached as well as two fairly loaded silos. What I wanted to show here I more or less covered though. See how there are mounted defenders inside the castle? If they are set to go into action as soon as anything is attacked then they would get to anything just on the other side of the wall fairly quickly. So in this case I would have deployed 2 or three champion units in front of that barracks and Embassy to the left. This would draw those mounted troops out away from the castle and while they would ultimately lose, the champions are tough enough to keep those mounted troops busy for a while. Allowing time for my Great Bowmen I'd send around the castle to get more damage in before those defenders came after them.

Okay not let's look at some other bad castle choices for this style.

2ry0nwz.jpg

Now while this castle has a lot of outside buildings they also have mounted troops nearby also on the outside which would get after an attacking troops fairly quickly. That aside after that most of the inside buildings are at least one square away from the nearest outer wall. Plus things are heavily sectioned off so you wouldn't get much even if you punched a hole thru a wall somewhere The castle might be slightly vulnerable but there are three fairly upgraded crossbow towers, one gold cannon tower, two fairly upgraded Archer Towers two treb emplacements and two catapult emplacements all protecting that castle. Plus it's in one corner of the map so if you did try to go after it using Martel he would be instantly under heavy fire.

72vmoj.jpg

In this example there are a few outside buildings unprotected and a ram would probably have plenty of time to punch a hole thru that massive outer wall but every tho is pretty well defended inside. Additionally you would have to start any invading attackers from the outside which would give the defenders inside plenty of time to adjust to your approach you could maybe kite them outside  but it would eat up a lot of time since most if not all of them are the slower foot soldier types. Also all the juiciest targets are pretty well protected in multiple ways.

24dr9tx.jpg

In this example there's a lot of very tempting resources up for grabs and even though you would probably walk away with some decent resources just from the handful of buildings you could reach it would be a hard fought battle with those outside mounted defenders. If you did manage to punch thru you might get as many as three more buildings but that would be it because of being fairly compartmentalized.

Okay that's about it feel free to ask questions if you have any and I'll do my best to respond as quickly as I can but before I end this let me throw in a few other thoughts. I get the notion of trying to get crowns and stars and being on the leaderboard but that, in my opinion, is mostly for when you've upgraded everything and done everything else you can and that's all that is left to challenge yourself with. Consider this though, the leaderboard has 200 spots and there are one million perhaps more users worldwide. Now granted many of them probably aren't active any more but even if only 25% were left that's at least 1250 people trying to grab each of those slots. Being on the leaderboard and having several thousand crowns is about the same as painting a bullseye on your empire because you'll have 1250 people minimum wanting to take your spot away from you. Sure that's a tremendous challenge and something to be proud of but it's got to get old real quick once it does what's left then?

Something I should have included early on has to do with scouting and is pretty obvious but I'll mention it here, now because new players might not have realized it yet and it applies to whatever style and motivation for battle you might have. You need to quickly learn how to calculate whether or not any given castle you're given to attack will fit the army you have and the style of attack you want to employ because you're only given a limited amount of time to decide before you either need to next or find yourself in battle with the clock ticking downwards. There's a lot of things to consider in picking your battles but you're selling yourself short if you only criteria is whether they are more powerful or not then you are. Many here have figured out some very tough defenses that aren't necessarily immediately recognizable until you've been thru it a number of times, however, there are also many here who have weak defense because they bought their way to upper levels and didn't put in enough time learning what does and doesn't work. Unfortunately you can't pick your target and then build your army for it, you have to do it the other way around. What I've suggested here works pretty well for the style I'm covering here but while my army works for this it would not do too well on trying to get three stars or even for taking out a keep without the most powerful heroes.

Okay that's it, I'm getting tired now and while I'm sure there's one or two points I meant to cover that I haven't yet I can't think of them now. So let me just end by saying good luck in your battles and may your path eventually lead you to the glory you seek but until you get there for Pete's sake try to remember it's just a game and the most important thing iwith games is to have fun. :)

 

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I am basically a professional Archergeddonner (I do 2 a day normally).

Yes, you do have to be 'picky', but people have a rather pleasing habit of putthing their STORAGE BUILDINGS up against the wall. Thx guyz.

My typical Archergeddon is 48 Archers, 2 Heavy Cavalry, and 2 Mamluks, with Martel and Richard. I use the two independent of one another - one group of archers gets the Martel (and lasts longer), one group gets Richard (and does more damage), and the other groups have to go it alone (but they do fine anyway).

I order my Heroes to attack walls, so they stay in place. If I'm lucky, Martel will actually have EATEN THROUGH A WALL and made a hole my spare cavs and mams can use, which is sometimes the difference between 0* and 1* for me (I'm not a very skilled player, OK?)

Archers are probably overpowered, TBH. Maybe they should have HP closer to Xbowmen. This would a) make Archers less effective and b) make Xbowmen look like an option.

Thoughts, people?

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The reason Great bowman are so hard to kill is because they are spaced apart so widely in a squad. This means it takes volley after volley after volley to kill a squad and they survive way longer than their mere 828 health suggest. They easily outlast their Briton cultural counterpart the Longbowman, by far more than their health difference (max 552 health for longbowman) suggests.

Still the archergeddon is a strategy that can be countered, fairly easily even. The great shortcoming of the Great bowman is it's poor range. But it's not forcing the bowmen into defensive fire that is the way to counter archergeddon. It's putting buildings outside of their range.

This forces all archergeddoners to be picky, and that's a wonderful trade off at age 9, when there's enough to be picky about just nexting to find decent stone/crowns.

So I think Great Bowman are actually fairly balanced. 

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no due to a glitch I lost my first castle, under this name, my gamer tag now is HilariousUser89 (not my choice, I far prefer Hagbardxxiii as a moniker)

Ok. Have you made any changes to your defences because of this?

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The reason Great bowman are so hard to kill is because they are spaced apart so widely in a squad. This means it takes volley after volley after volley to kill a squad and they survive way longer than their mere 828 health suggest. They easily outlast their Briton cultural counterpart the Longbowman, by far more than their health difference (max 552 health for longbowman) suggests.

Still the archergeddon is a strategy that can be countered, fairly easily even. The great shortcoming of the Great bowman is it's poor range. But it's not forcing the bowmen into defensive fire that is the way to counter archergeddon. It's putting buildings outside of their range.

This forces all archergeddoners to be picky, and that's a wonderful trade off at age 9, when there's enough to be picky about just nexting to find decent stone/crowns.

So I think Great Bowman are actually fairly balanced. 

That's an aesthetics thing - it only comes into play with AoE (Area of Effect) damage.

The reason Composite Bowmen outlive equivalant Heavy Crossbowmen and Longbowmen is the small matter of 1) them having more damage to defend themselves (if that matters) and 2) their significantly higher HP. Not much more than that, really.

Maybe I'm just picky all the time, because I don't feel adversely more picky archergeddonising.

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what's interesting is since I posted yesterday 2 other alliance members got pincushioning cherry popped too! Apparently all the cool kids are doing it now, I might have to actually upgrade my archery range!

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